News and Politics Forum

That cartoon message accurately portrays Mormon theology.

And, the kicker is, the "many gods" absolutely removes them from being Christians, even though they try to be labeled by that name over and again.

They rarely, if ever, lead off with that theology.  They prefer instead to be seen as "family friendly," which at its end is because each Mormon male is intending on propagating his own race of people to inhabit his world once he becomes god.

"Cult" is a term often used as a pejorative toward the Latter Day Saints, but from an orthodox Christian standpoint, that is exactly what they are, for they overturn virtually every tenet of orthodox Christianity while borrowing the name -- one of the ways cults are defined.

Sven wrote:

It begs the question:

Do Mormons really believe this drivel? I can't say I know many, and the ones I do have fallen far from the tree.

Or do they look upon their Mormonism more as a ethnicity which they cannot disavow than as a purposely chosen religious path?

I'll make the analogy that most (almost all western) RCs don't embrace their demonimation's position on birth control, infallibility of the Pope (in force on rare occasion), the necessity of confession and so on but they sure won't leave the church over such matters. Maybe Mormon's are similarly tolerant of their own church's wrongminded thinking but don't have the chutzpa (sp?) to fight it.

I'd like to take the easy road out and say that you are right, but the fact is, you are wrong.  Mormons (or more properly, Latter Day Saints) simply DO NOT TOLERATE wayward belief in their fold.  They will begin by banning one from Temple, and eventually excommunicate violators.  Are there exemptions to this rule?  Of course, just as in any human endeavor, but let ONE person say so publicly, and they are out.  Happens every day in the Mormon world.  The bigger problem is that they (Mormons) have such a heirarchy of life set up that getting "out" is almost impossible.  Almost all they know is locked up Mormon, especially in their stonghold areas like Utah.  That means food, entertainment, clothing, employment, etc.  They have literally carved out an empire right under the noses of Joe and Jane America.

As for the stuff in that cartoon being "drivel" I'd say not.  It is pure Mormon theology.  You can call it drivel if you like, but that IS what they believe.  I've run into Mormon missionaries in my own ministry work -- and we've sat side-by-side talking to others who we are both reaching for the church.  The Mormons were winning the day until I involked their core theology -- and that was the end of that episode.  The moment they agreed that Kolub was their core theology, the game was over, for the couple I was talking to rightly understood just how far out of any rationality the Mormons were.

Realize that Joseph Smith made this stuff up as he went along -- combining some Evolutionary thought from Darwin, some Masonic stuff, some Jewish stuff and some Christian stuff (plus some stuff from wherever his fertile mind led him, including ancient Egypt, etc.) into a religion that is rather flexible theologically (with many discordant trains of thought).  That has allowed a false religion to withstand the tests of time.

I have a hard time getting my mind around the idea that so many otherwise smart people believe, without a doubt, in aliens.

...

Narrow that down a bit?  I don't see anything unintelligent about believing in alien life - it seems to me a stretch to believe we're the -only- living things in the universe. 

If what you mean is that you can't accept "little gray aliens who have visited Earth regularly and kidnap people and give them anal probes", then I'm closer to being on the same page with you, but I don't think that's what's people are necessarily thinking when asked by pollsters, "Do you believe in aliens?"

Qwinn

Last edited by Qwinn (03-31-2008 09:21 PM)

I could vote for a Mormon, given reason to like them on most other issues.  (For example, I'd happily vote for Orson Scott Card if he actually ran.  And he's actually a Democrat!)  I have yet to find an individual scientologist whose virtues compensate for the extreme ridiculousness of their "religion".  I mean, when you believe a religion founded by a guy who explicitly created it for the sake of a tax shelter, how dumb do you have to be?

Qwinn

Last edited by Qwinn (03-31-2008 09:28 PM)

Qwinn wrote:

I could vote for a Mormon, given reason to like them on most other issues.  (For example, I'd happily vote for Orson Scott Card if he actually ran.  And he's actually a Democrat!)  I have yet to find an individual scientologist whose virtues compensate for the extreme ridiculousness of their "religion".  I mean, when you believe a religion founded by a guy who explicitly created it for the sake of a tax shelter, how dumb do you have to be?

Qwinn

I'd counter by saying about as dumb as believing in Joseph Smith's magic hat from which he read the sacred scriptures, which only he could see....in his hat....um yea about that dumb.  Then there's the whole magic underwear thing.  Blacks baring the mark of Cain.  And more....

Although I do agree that Mormons tend to be good people, I'm still put off by a ridiculous belief system no matter how well its marketed.

Quinn wrote:

(For example, I'd happily vote for Orson Scott Card if he actually ran.  And he's actually a Democrat!)

+1

Do you read his column at hatrack.com? Pretty good stuff. Even though I disagree with his stances more often than not.

As far as Mormons go. All the Mormons I have ever met have been exceptionally friendly people.

Quarken wrote:

Mormons seem only slightly crazier than more predominant Christians to me.

Good place to start.

JRoyC07 wrote:

Seabird wrote:

Only because they want to ground your bones into bread and wear your skin as underwear. Just ask a Baptist... He'll tell you all about it.

At least they wont smoke pot out of my decapitated head. As long as that type of shenanigans doesnt occur, im perfectly fine watching them pedal up my street on 80+ degree days decked out in long black pants/dress-shirts/ties.

They hate drink and playing of cards and other such vices.  But many of them work in many a Las Vegas casino.

When they come up to our door I ask them to pray the Nicene Creed...

glfredrick wrote:

..."How could an otherwise smart person believe a religion without a shred of evidence to back it up?"

Isn't that the definition of faith?

peoples army wrote:

glfredrick wrote:

..."How could an otherwise smart person believe a religion without a shred of evidence to back it up?"

Isn't that the definition of faith?

Only if you define "faith" as also "blind," which it is in the Mormon perspective.  They have ZERO evidence that a single word of their testimony is true, unlike Christians and the Jews they stem from, who have 6000+ years of real history to study.

Christian faith is an "objective" faith -- not a blind faith.  We have reasons, rationale, and reality to back up what we believe -- otherwise, it would be stupid-silly like all the other religions.  In other words, Jesus actually lived, actually died, actually rose from the dead, etc.  Find ONE piece of evidence like that for Mormonism.

Quarken wrote:

Both Jesus & Joe Smith lived & died.  That's about all either religion can claim as "evidence."

Not hardly...  You obviously haven't kept up with Christian research.  This isn't the thread for it, so if you wish to discuss some evidences for the Christian faith in an historical/archaeological nature, start a new thread and I'd be happy to engage.

About the Mormons -- The Book of Mormon makes outrageous claims about two races of people who lived in North America.  They had cities, civilizations, and were descended from the Hebrew people of Israel.  There are also claims of gold plates, "seeing stones" used to translate those golden plates, "Reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics," and a host of other issues that OUGHT to be seen in the historical/archaeological record, but there is not one shred of evidence to back up one thing that is stated in that book.  The nail in the coffin was the negative genetic tests done on Native Americans -- no Hebrew bloodline.

Quarken wrote:

Historical/archaeological claims of either faith is only evidence of thinking backwards.

No, where did you come up with a silly idea like that?  Christianity is anchored in historical event, not mythology.  By your standard, we can't know anything from history -- which is a very post modern way of looking at the world -- and one doomed to failure.  Eventually, we not only get to, we have to examine the roots of belief system to see if they accurately portray real events and describe a real faith.