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#1 09-15-2008 03:14 AM
- dubfan
- The fist-bump of change
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The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
In 2004 it was a piece by Tom Junod in Esquire, called " The Case for George W. Bush; i.e., what if he's right?"
This was the money quote for me:
Losing the war on terror? The terrible truth is that we haven't begun to find out what that really means.
http://www.mywire.com/pubs/Esquire/2004 … 604?page=1
This year I think it's a piece by Jeff Goldberg, in The Atlantic, "On Nov. 4, Remember 9/11", who outlines what Junod only hinted at:
THE next president must do one thing, and one thing only, if he is to be judged a success: He must prevent Al Qaeda, or a Qaeda imitator, from gaining control of a nuclear device and detonating it in America. Everything else — Fannie Mae, health care reform, energy independence, the budget shortfall in Wasilla, Alaska — is commentary. The nuclear destruction of Lower Manhattan, or downtown Washington, would cause the deaths of thousands, or hundreds of thousands; a catastrophic depression; the reversal of globalization; a permanent climate of fear in the West; and the comprehensive repudiation of America’s culture of civil liberties.
A couple of ironies. One, both of these pieces ran in the MSM, by left-leaning writers. Two, I'm pretty high on Sarah Palin, but Goldberg's piece is not particularly kind to her, nor to McCain, really.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/opini … d=1&hp
Q: What's the difference between Dick Cheney & Sarah Palin?
A: When Sarah Palin shoots a lawyer he stays down.
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#2 09-15-2008 05:50 AM
- EscapeVelocity
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
I think nuking NYC wouldnt be so bad, cause then we could commence to wiping Islam off the face of the Earth, through the judicious use of Nukes(Mecca) and more widespread use of chemical and biological weapons....ending with door to door one muslim at a time ethnic cleansing and religio-cide.
The economy will boom as it did in WW2, and we would single handedly remove 1.5 billion high fertility rate Gaia polluters from the planet....bringing a 1000 years of peace and prosperity to the world.
Last edited by EscapeVelocity (09-15-2008 06:21 AM)
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#3 09-15-2008 02:11 PM
- SoulWrangler
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
EV: Are you saying youd prefer to live in a world where every muslim had been killed because of their being muslims?
“LOOK round you,” said the citizen. “This is the largest market in the world.”
“Oh, surely not,” said the traveller. “Well, perhaps not the largest,” said the citizen, “but much the best.”
“You are certainly wrong there,” said the traveller. “I can tell you . . .”
They buried the stranger at the dusk.
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#4 09-15-2008 03:56 PM
- SoulWrangler
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
In all seriousness though, let me put out a theoretical situation. Lets say there never was going to be a nuke. Just hypothetically. The terrorists never get one, and there is no threat of wmd's being used on american soil. Would the war on terror be worth it at that point? The billions and billions spent persecuting a country, dethroning a dictator and arousing democracy is good, but is it really worth what weve payed? Are the lives lost and the money spent really worth less than the potential for lives lost if we had responded by simply staying in afghanistan and having called it a wrap after a few years of not finding bin laden? Not saying this would be the most preferably thing to do, but damn, weve spent a _fuckton_ to ensure our freedom.
http://online.wsj.com/public/article_pr … 88445.html
Last edited by SoulWrangler (09-15-2008 04:00 PM)
“LOOK round you,” said the citizen. “This is the largest market in the world.”
“Oh, surely not,” said the traveller. “Well, perhaps not the largest,” said the citizen, “but much the best.”
“You are certainly wrong there,” said the traveller. “I can tell you . . .”
They buried the stranger at the dusk.
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#5 09-15-2008 04:09 PM
- axe
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
SoulWrangler wrote:
arousing democracy
:mark:
Edit: hey? why isn't that working anymore?
Last edited by axe (09-15-2008 04:09 PM)
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will only cry out for more
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#6 09-15-2008 05:54 PM
- Peter
- Salt
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
I'm being quite shallow today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adc3MSS5Ydc
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#7 09-15-2008 08:37 PM
- Qwinn
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
SW:
That WSJ article was somewhat interesting until:
There is unequivocal evidence that humans are changing the planet's climate.
Bzzzt. Sorry. I'm happy to see someone, anyone extolling the virtues of good cost-benefit analysis (the total inability to do so IMO being one of the greatest failures of the Left), but a good cost benefit analysis requires not drinking the Kool Aid. With that line, the writer displayed that he has done so. Unequivocal evidence? My ass.
Qwinn
"The vice of capitalism is that there is an unequal share of the blessings; the virtue of socialism is that there is an equal share of the misery." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
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#8 09-15-2008 09:09 PM
- SoulWrangler
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
Qwinn: The only relevant portion was the first part where he was explaining the cost/benefit of the counter terrorism efforts. The views on the part Im using this to back up are not being influenced by the views on climate change.
Last edited by SoulWrangler (09-15-2008 09:10 PM)
“LOOK round you,” said the citizen. “This is the largest market in the world.”
“Oh, surely not,” said the traveller. “Well, perhaps not the largest,” said the citizen, “but much the best.”
“You are certainly wrong there,” said the traveller. “I can tell you . . .”
They buried the stranger at the dusk.
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#9 09-15-2008 09:13 PM
- Qwinn
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
SW:
I think that analysis fails because it assumes that, without current anti-terror strategies, the economic and human toll of terrorism will stay constant. I see no logic behind that assumption. I see no comparison to the -trends- before and after current counter-terrorism efforts.
What would be the economic, social and human (meaning lives lost) impact of just one single nuke going off in a major city?
Qwinn
Last edited by Qwinn (09-15-2008 09:14 PM)
"The vice of capitalism is that there is an unequal share of the blessings; the virtue of socialism is that there is an equal share of the misery." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
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#10 09-15-2008 09:17 PM
- SoulWrangler
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
My theoretical situation without nukes, my fantasy. Its just as real as the one thats being lived by millions of TAX PAYING AMERICANS CITIZENS (who vote for obama).
“LOOK round you,” said the citizen. “This is the largest market in the world.”
“Oh, surely not,” said the traveller. “Well, perhaps not the largest,” said the citizen, “but much the best.”
“You are certainly wrong there,” said the traveller. “I can tell you . . .”
They buried the stranger at the dusk.
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#11 09-15-2008 09:22 PM
- Qwinn
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
Ah, I'm sorry, I failed to note that you qualified "no nukes" in your post (God knows how the WSJ simply dismissed that without even mentioning it, unless I just missed it somehow, not worth going to doublecheck).
Anyways, ok, fine, no nukes, but still, it assumes conventional terrorism would have produced no more deaths or economic cost today than it did before 2000. I see no basis for that. It could easily be ten times as bad today as it was in 2000, if we went the appeasement route as the Left wants to do.
Qwinn
"The vice of capitalism is that there is an unequal share of the blessings; the virtue of socialism is that there is an equal share of the misery." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
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#12 09-15-2008 09:26 PM
- EscapeVelocity
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
SoulWrangler wrote:
EV: Are you saying youd prefer to live in a world where every muslim had been killed because of their being muslims?
Id probably be OK with leaving a few of them in the Syrian desert or Libyan desert or Oman/Yemen, isolated.
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#13 09-15-2008 09:32 PM
- SoulWrangler
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
But why? It seems to me that these guys are just doing this to get our attention in the manner that makes it seem like it is a (get ready for a shock) culture war!!! When there was no war/direct involvment by americans, I dont think there was nearly as much interest in doing such direct harm to our people. Not to say the interest wasnt there, just that its intensified because of the proximity. Like a fire, shit just gets hotter and hotter the closer you get. I was only a tween when the WTC happened, but I dont remember much going on about nukes then. Consequently, Ive seen estimates that Iran has ~500 kg of low grade uranium for making into nukes and at current refining ability theyll need 15000 kg to have enough to make a nuke. Thatll apparently take ~2 years, so ya, the nuke is something Im worried about. Arms race, sponsored by Russia and America, here we go!
Really, it wasnt until recently that I truely appreciated what Isreal does for us over there.
EV: You realize there are between 1 and 1.8 billion muslims, right?
Last edited by SoulWrangler (09-15-2008 09:33 PM)
“LOOK round you,” said the citizen. “This is the largest market in the world.”
“Oh, surely not,” said the traveller. “Well, perhaps not the largest,” said the citizen, “but much the best.”
“You are certainly wrong there,” said the traveller. “I can tell you . . .”
They buried the stranger at the dusk.
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#14 09-15-2008 09:39 PM
- EscapeVelocity
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
Yes, that is why it will be environmentally friendly, even with several radiation zones, and some non human biological weapon crossover. If you project their high fertility rates into the future, you can see the massive devestation that Muslims would put on the Gaia.
So its a win/win situation for the Gaia and humanity.
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#15 09-15-2008 09:45 PM
- EscapeVelocity
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Re: The one piece of writing that sums up your views on the 2008 election
Anyways, Im to the point where I think that the US should adopt Chinese style foreign policy. Focussed solely on narrowly defined self interest economic gains. Negotiate spheres of influence with the Russians and Chinese, and let the Euros worry about human rights and liberty. If the Euros want support in the UN from the US then they can bribe us for it with economic and other concessions that we see as beneficial for ourselves.
Offer the Israelis US citizenship and refugee status, and get out of Middle East politics. Focus on consolidating US supremacy in North and South America, regionally....and in Africa.
Last edited by EscapeVelocity (09-15-2008 09:48 PM)
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